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Win-Digipet - english forums => Win-Digipet Forum English => Thema gestartet von: Per Olsen am 16. März 2018, 08:56:57
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Hello.
This may be a bit off-topic, but I really need some help for this..
As you can see, I am using the latest upgrade of WDP. And I am using a TAMS controller. But I do have a severe problem: Sometimes a loco suddenly starts to move, at full speed, when it should not move at all. Only way I can stop it, is to turn power off.
First I believed it was a decoder-problem, as it seemed to happen only with a few locos. And the problem went away (it seemed..) when I put in new decoder. Many times I was sure the problem was gone for good, but it keeps coming back. And now, last time today, a loco with a sound decoder, that was parked, suddenly played one of its sounds. And after a while it also started to move.
I am beginning to suspect: Is it possible that the loc-controller (Tams) does not send "clean enough" data to the tracks, so that the loc-decoders sometimes mis-understand the command? Has anybody else ever seem a similar problem?
If the TAMS controller is to be replaced, which controller should I go for? It will (of course) be used with WinDigiPet.
Sorry for posting this here in this forum. If you have any help for me, you may contact me directly on my email: per-olsen@online.no
Best regards,
Per.
PS: I did disable analogue mode in some of the problem-decoders, but it did not help.
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Hello Per,
don't worry, this forum is for all kind of train problems. I also hardly suspect the analogue mode! Please check if CV 29 (DCC don't know it for MM or mfx) is set properly. Disable the analogue mode at all other locos that have this issue.
I also have the Tams Control and none of my more than 100 locos suddenly start to roll. I think you have two different kind of problems: first the one where the locos are running at full speed --> analogue mode. Second the loco playing a sound and the starts running. Here I guess that you have a profile that was still running. A profile that wasn't finished properly before and was resumed later. Please check that, too.
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Hi Per,
here is some more information from Eddy who asked me to translate it for you:
Hello Per,
please check CV 47 and CV 50. In these CVs you may also disable the analogue mode. Additionally please switch off Railcom at both the decoders and the Tams controller. You will find it in CV 28. Railcom can have a bad influence to the locos.
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Hello Stefan !
Thank you for your replies.
I will check again. I did disable the analogue mode on all decoders before, but will check again. I will also check for any profiles, but as I do not have any profiles that activate that sound, I doubt it. But I will check again.
Also I never used Railcom, but will check that too. By the way, where do I find in WDP if it has been activated? Some work for the weekend :) Problem is of course that I never know when it happens before it is too late. I have 74 locos on the tracks (but only max 5-6 running at each time).
Hope to solve this :)
Regards,
Per.
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Hi Per,
you won't find Railcom in WDP because it's an option between the Tams and the decoders. I don't user Railcom neither but I have some US locos that don't run at all when Railcom is activated. So deactivate it - it only can get better.
So you have some work for the weekend. :) Have fun!
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Hello, Stefan.
Work in progress :)
I found and disabled RailCom in the Tams controller.
I am now modifying the parameters in the loco that last made problems. I read CV47, and it says value is 16. But in my "manual" I can only find values up to 15. Do you know the value 16, what it means?
Regards.
Per.
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Hi Per,
CV 47 is a caracter varrable for protocoll selection. The digit is a summary of the values of the bits. For DCC on the bit is 0 and the value to count is 1. DCC off has the same bit 0 and the value is also 0. For M4 (means mfx) the bit is 1. For Mfx on the value is 2, off is 0. Motorola has bit 2. For Motorola on the value to count is 4, off is 0. Selectrix has bit 3; on is 8, off is 0. So you have a loco with mfx-protocoll you can write in CV 47 the value 2 when you want to allow to use this protocoll. Decoders with multiple protocolls (e.g. Mfx, DCC, Motorola) you may allow all this protocolls. So you have to count 1 (for DCC on), 2 (for Mfx on) and 4 (for Motorola on). The sum then is 7, which is to write in CV 47.
If you have a install brochure from ESU you can read this in the list of the sustained CV, written on the last pages of the brochure.
Important is the value you have to write in CV29 configuration register. This CV functions the same way as CV 47. So you have already disabled the analog mode (value 0 for bit 2), same way you may disable the RailCom-mode.
I hope you will solve your problem soon.
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Hello Ralf!
Thank you for your answer.
Yes, I read them before. But still, the max sum will only be 15. But I have the value 16 in 2 of my decoders. So the question is still what the last one (16) is for?
And also, the decoders that have the value 0 in CV 47, what does that mean? No protocols at all? Should not be possible :) Or maybe 0 means the same as "all" ?
Anyway, as I normally only use DCC for these decoders, I should put only value 1 in anyway?
Regards,
Per.
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Hello Per,
for CV 47 the range of values is set from 0 to 255. Normaly this will be of no sense, because the Maximum value is 15 as you already mentioned. The default value is set to 13. To set this CV for DCC on the value 1 should be selected.
Do you use perhaps another decoder than ESU? As I know, not alle CV are regulated by NMRA. So it might be that CV 47 is one of those CV which are free for the producer to fill with different parts of a protocoll.
If your decoders are produced by ESU I would emphasize to set the CV to a value which is logical.
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Hello again!
Well, actually, the 2 decoders mentioned, are Zimo decoders. But I checked for values in the ZIMO manual, and they have only a blank for CV 47. Completely empty.
To be on the safe side, I did not change the value of CV 47 in any decoder. Yet.
Regards,
Per
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Just to be clear here. Are we now saying that Analogue mode should be disabled on all decoders with the latest versions of WDP?
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Hi Adrian,
this has nothing to do with WDP. If you are running digitally only you should always switch the analoge mode off. Nomatter if you are running manually without WDP or with WDP. If you are running your locos however somtimes on an analogue layout you can't switch it off.
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Thank you for the response Stefan. I was concerned that something had changed in WDP. I have not experienced any runaway locos, but then I don't have the very latest update installed. I think my layout is still on 2015.2b. I have been too busy to move to 2015.2c, but I am looking forward to the new version 2018.
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Hi Adrian,
the runaway locos are a result of this: the decoders automatically detect if the signal on the tracks is analogue or digital. The voltage at digital layouts usually is 20V. If for some reasons the decoders decide that the signal is analogue they take the voltage for the speed. And 20V means full speed. That's the reason why some locos run away with full speed. And as you can see this has nothing to do with WDP.
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Hello again.
I wonder, can this have anything to do with MFX/M3 in the Tams controller that I use? A few minutes ago, I turned on the power, only to my TAMS, not the PC. 3 of my locos ran away at full speed. This never happened before, normally it happened only to 1 loc at a time. But even worse, after I turned the power off and later on again, the same locos ran again at full speed. After 3 attempts I decided I had to do something....
I looked at the display of the Tams. The number of one of my MFX locos was in the display, as I had controlled that loco last time. And I have heard before that the M3 protocol (MFX) in the Tams controller, is not reliable. So before I pressed GO next time, I changed the adress to one other loco that has an ESU decoder. This time no locos ran away when I pressed GO next time.
Could there be a problem with the M3 protocol? Should I disable it (and I am not sure HOW to do that...)?
Regards,
Per.
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Hello Per,
I'm sorry but I run DCC only. I can't help you here.
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Hi again.
I spent several hours today fixing the problems from yesterday. It was actually 4 locos that went crazy. I checked all decoders, the ALL have Uhlenbrock decoders (ID=85). And none of them had analogue disabled (I have disabled them now). I will have to go through ALL my other locos and disable analogue. I have mostly ESU decoders.
Regards,
Per
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Hi again.
Stefan: One question: If you only run DCC, do you also use locos with MFX decoder?
I am working now with disabling the analogue in all my decoders. But it does take some time.. But a big problem came today: One of the locos that I already HAVE disabled the analogue drive, today ran away at full speed out of control. AGAIN. So disabling the analogue did not help. It has a ZIMO decoder.
What more can I do? Suggestions?
I am stressed now....
Regards,
Per.
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Hello Per,
I have N scale. There's no mfx in N scale.
Have you checked the Zimo decoder if the analogue mode is really (or still) disabled?
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Hello Stefan.
I re-checked now. It does have a Zimo sound-decoder. RailCom and Analogue is still disabled.
Regards,
Per
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Hello Per,
which CVs did you check at the Zimo decoder? Maybe it's another CV then 29 which is responsible for analogue/digital.
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Hello.
Yes (of course.. :))) I checked the Zimo CV-list. Here is what it says for CV29:
#29 Basic Settings
Calculating the value for CV #29 is due to
addition of the individual bit values,
weighted according to their respective
position on the basis of the following table
Bit 0: 0 or 1
Bit 1: 0 or 2
Bit 2: 0 or 4
Bit 3: value 0 or 8
Bit 4: 0 or 16
Bit 5: 0 or 32
Bit 6: 0 or 64
Bit 7: Value 0 or 128
In ZIMO cabs MX21, MX31, ... the CV
presentation is also bitwise, ie calculation of
the bit values is no longer necessary!
0 -63 6
Bit 1 = 1
Bit 2 = 1
Bit 0 - direction behavior -> 0 = normal, 1 = reverse
Bit 1 - Travel system -> 0 = 14, 1 = 28/128 speed steps
Bit 2 - Conventional Automatic switching (analog mode) -> 0 = off,
1 = on
Bit 3 - RailCom -> 0 = not active, 1 = active
(! CV 28 must be 3!)
Bit 4 - the speed table ->
0 = off-Kl. CV #2, #5, #6
1 = on Char. by CV #67 - #94
Bit 5 - Decoder Address:
0 = 1 address as per CV #1
1 = 2-address as per CV #17 and #18
Bits 6, 7 always 0 (bit7 = 1 when turnout decoder)!
Example values:
#29 = 2: normal direction, 28 speed, no analogue operation,
characteristics, CV #2, #5, #6, short address.
#29 = 10 as described above, only with active RailCom
So, as with ESU and others, I normally use value 2 or 3 (if reverse direction). So it should be correct...
Regards,
Per.
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Hello Per,
this looks good to me. Hmm, sorry, I don't have another idea.
I just googled for it and got two hits:
The first decoder had a cold soldering area.
In the other case the user disabled all other protocols then DCC. So he switched MM ans M4(mfx) off. That worked.
Some write the Zimo decoder are rubbish some write they don't have any problems with it.
I'm afraid you have to find out.
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Hello Stefan.
No, I think it is not a bad solder, as it happens with several locos.
Yes, I would like to switch off all other protocols. The problem is how? I have checked CV47. In my locos it has different values. Many of them have 0, which should mean no protocol at all. I also have values of 32, 16 and 13.
ESU: Mostly 0, some 13
ZIMO: 16
UHLENBROCK: FAULT, some 32
So I am a bit reluctant to change it, as I am not sure I am doing the right thing.... Normally I would have liked to have the value 1 (only DCC), as recommended in one of the ESU manuals I found, they say it is best to have only one protocol if there is a problem using a multi-protocol controller. Like the TAMS I am using.
What say you?
Best regards,
Per.
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Hello Per,
you should switch off all other protocols in the Tams. I don't know how to do that because I only have one. I'm sorry but this is beyond my knowledge.
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Hello Per,
unfortunately, I can not speak English, I'll try a translator.
Have you ever looked at the logs with the program "CV-Navi"?
There is the possibility to query the logs as they are stored in the TAMS and change.
I hope you can read my gibberish overheard.
I do not know if it helps you with your problem.
Sincerely, Bergen, Norway
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Hello.
Stefan: Well, I do need Motorola for some of my older locs, so I cannot switch that one off. I do suspect that the MFX should be disabled, but I do not know how to do it. I cannot find it in the manual either.
Arnold: Hello ! English is NOT my native language either, but I try as best I can :) For german language: I am able to read some, but I do not speak it very well.... You may try to write in german (if you keep it simple, for me :) ) I will probably manage to understand it.
No, I do not know that program, sorry.
Regards,
Per.
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Hallo Per,
ich versuche es auf deutsch.
CV Navi ist ein Hilfsprogramm der Fa. TAMS welches man sich kostenlos herunter laden kann:
https://estore-sslserver.eu/WebRoot/Store11/Shops/642f1858-c39b-4b7d-af86-f6a1feaca0e4/MediaGallery/15_Download/Software/setup_CV-Navi_2.7_release_20180118.exe
Mit dem Programm kannst du die TAMS auslesen und unter dem Reiter "Lok" siehst du deine Loks und dessen Protokoll mit dem sie in der Zentrale angelegt sind.
Außerdem kannst du auch von dort die Loks ansteuern.
Wenn du an den Parametern irgendetwas änderst muss du auf alle Fälle unter System dieses speichern!
Vielleicht kommst du mit dieser Info weiter.
Viele Grüße ins schöne Bergen :)
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Hello !
I answer in English :) No problem to understand you! I will do this, but it will have to wait till after Easter, as we drive to another part of Norway early tomorrow morning. I have my laptop with me, so I can read messages, but my layout is not with me :)
Thank you for your help !
Regards,
Per.
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Hello Per,
I think the best way to solve your problem is to switch off the analogue mode in each decoder within CV 29. I guess that it is not necessary to change the setting of the TAMS MC.
On my layout I drive locos with old Märklin decoders (6080 = Mäuseklavier) with MM I-protocoll together with locos with ESU-decoders on DCC-protocoll and some new Märklin-locos with mfx-decoders. These decoders are set to m3 with TAMS MC "m3-Programmierung". All locos work very good with this mixture of protocolls. The version of TAMS MC is V1.4.5o. The menu of the TAMS shows in settings (Einstellungen) and its submenu "Lokformat" the protocoll Motorola. This is the fundamental setting and valid for address from 1- 255 for Motorola-decoders. Address from 256 onward (perhaps till 9999) are automatically set to DCC.
I hope this will help you and I wish you happy easter.
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Hi.
Look at my earlier reply, when I wrote:
Quote:
I am working now with disabling the analogue in all my decoders. But it does take some time.. But a big problem came today: One of the locos that I already HAVE disabled the analogue drive, today ran away at full speed out of control. AGAIN. So disabling the analogue did not help. It has a ZIMO decoder.
Unquote.
So in my case it is not enough to disable analogue..
Regards,
Per.