Forward/backward

[Lars N]

Several of my locos get the direction that is registered in the loco database changed for some reason that I don't understand. Almost all my locos are registered in the database with forward as the default direction, but then later when I click on some of them to open the drive window they have got their direction changed to backwards. If I open the database and correct it, it is changed back again to backwards in a while. It doesn't happen with all my locos, but with many of them.
Is there something that I have not understood, or is this maybe a program bug?
I run WDP 8.4.1 International.

Lars  

[Dietloff]

Hi Lars,

what kind of Digital System do you use? What type of decoders (brand, type) are built in?
Are always the same locs affected or is it kind of random?

Regards

Ruediger
 

[Lars N]

Hi Rüdiger,

I run my layout with an Intellibox using both Motorola and DCC decoders.
Motorola decoders are: Märklin 60902 and C-sine decoders.
DCC decoders are: Zimo MX61R Model 2000, MX63R, MX64R,
     ESU Lokpilot, Lokpilot DCC, Loksound2,
     Brawa Digital Premium.

The problem has occurred on:
     Zimo MX61R in 15 decoders of 42,
     ESU Lokpilot in 2 decoders of 9,
     Märklin 60902 in 14 decoders of 36 and
     Brawa Digital Premium in 1 decoder of 1.

It looks as if it happens to the same decoders all the time, but I am not absolutely sure about that.

Regards,
Lars
 

[Dietloff]

Hi Lars,

this indeed sounds strange. At first I assumed that only the old M-Decoders (e.g. 6080) are affected, but in your case???
Especially the decoders which support the "new" Mot-protocol are able to recognise the "real" direction. Therefore a mismatch is (nearly) impossible.

Can you describe when and where this problem occurs?
E.g. during operations or just during startup or whatever.
In general there is no known problem regarding the loc  direction within WDP - otherwise we would receive a lot of concerns...

Sorry, but I got no idea from the distance therefore the better and detailed your description the closer we come to a solution.

Regards

Ruediger


 

[Yann]

Hello,
This hint can perhaps solve your problem... (sorry German text)
HIER

[Lars N]

Yann,

I tried the hint but I could not see any effect.


Rüdiger,

I have tested this thoroughly today and this is what happens:
1. I open a loco window in order to drive.
2. I see that it is set up for direction backwars.
3. I double click on "Win-Digipet Control" in the upper right corner of the window.
4. I change the direction to forwards.
5. I click OK.
6. The direction is now changed in the driving window.
7. I run the loco and everything is ok this far.
8. I quit Win-Digipet.
9. I restart Win-Digipet.
10. I open the driving window for the same loco, and NOW the default direction is set back to backwards.

The result is the same if I change the direction (step 4) in the loco database maintenance window. In step 10 it is reset to backwards.

I have also studied what happens in the loco database, and I have found this:
a. The data item Richtung has the information about forwards or backwards (0 or 1).
b. The locos with the problem of course have a 1 for backwards in the item Richtung.
c. I can open the database with MS Access and change the 1 to a 0.
d. Then when I open the program (WDP) the loco I changed has forward as direction!!!
e. After that I close WDP.
f. Now I open the database again with MS Access, and find that there is a 1 in Richtung.

It now looks to me as it is the closing of the program that does the improper modification of direction.

Regards,
Lars
     

[Peter Ploch]

Hallo Lars,

The loco with this effect is a Märklin one? Then I am sure, the engine has a 6080 decoder who lose his address after a while, perhaps in few minutes. The only one what you can do is, turn the engine by hand on the track. The problem with this decoder is, they have a preferred direction, therefore you are sure, that they always start in the right direction after long brake.

Please don’t change items in the database with MS Access; this will disturb your whole loc addresses, it is very dangerous.

 

[Adrian L]

Hello Lars and Peter,

I have also experienced this problem with two of my Marklin 37xxx br260 shunters. Both of these shunters are from the 2003/2004 catalogue - so they are not older Marklin types. While I am aware that this is a typical 6080 type of problem, the fact is that it seems to happen on some 6090 high efficency loks too.

I tried the same things as Lars, not the database edits, but the problem persists. It seems to happen when the loks are used by the IB outside of WDP (that is WDP is not running) and returned to the correct start location, but (possibly) with the wrong direction.  WDP sets the direction that it last used, but I suspect that it is done by remembering that the WDP direction is not the same as the "real" direction.    

Everytime WDP starts I can see the all lok lights (not just the two BR 260s) change with the new direction while they are parked in my yard.  Clearly, this suggests that the WDP direction is different than that contained within the decoder or the IB.

Regards
Adrian    

[Dietloff]

Hi Lars and Adrian,

maybe you are hunting a ghost?!
In general:

If you change the direction via the tool within the loc-control (double-click on "Win-Digipet" in the upper right of a loc control) has NO impact to the settings of the "real" loc database! The purpose of this is just to allow a "quick" synchronisation with (e.g.) the older decoder (6080) in case there is a mismatch between the decoder and WDP (e.g. after powerless and restart) and to avoid to open the loc database.

In V9 we disabled this "feature" because it does not resolve the real problem behind: the (old) decoder!

This in fact does not solve your problem but may help to bring you back on the right track.
If you use Mot-II-compliant decoder they MUST be able to recognise the current (real) direction - regardless if you changed the direction on your loc-control while the loc was on a powerless track. As soon as the loc has power again it will switch to the direction according to the loc control!

There is no known bug in WDP regarding direction - otherwise I would expect that this would have been reported several times in the past. I strictly recommend NOT to make any changes via MS-Access to the loc-database. You may cause data corruption. Changes shall be just made via WDP loc-database.

For my understanding: 1. The problem you describe, does it just occur after restart or somewhen during a session?
2. Are always the same locs affected or is it more or less random?

Regards

Ruediger
 

[Lars N]

Hi Rüdiger,

The problem is the same if I change direction in the loco database window as via the tool within the loc-control (double-click on "Win-Digipet" in the upper right of a loc control). I tested this just one minute ago.

1. It always happens after a complete restart of WDP.
2. Yes, it always happens with the same locos.

I always run the locos with the loco control window, not with the IB.
And as I mentioned before: this is not a Motorola/Marklin problem, it happens also with DCC decoders (Zimo, ESU, Brawa).

Regards,
Lars  

[Dietloff]

Hi Lars,

 

In Antwort auf:
 The problem is the same if I change direction in the loco database window as via the tool within the loc-control (double-click on "Win-Digipet" in the upper right of a loc control).  

This is what you should NOT do. As mentioned before this "feature" was just implemented to correct "quick'n easy" a loc-direction without the need to enter the loc-database to (e.g.) synchronise the settings mimatch between the "real" loc and WDP. Usually this is just useful if you handled the loc manually or in general if it is equipped with an old (pure Mot-I) decoder.

a) If it just happens with the same locos what´s the difference between them and your other locs?

b) What happens if you finish WDP with such locs in the preferred direction (usually forward) - is there a mismatch as well when you restart again?

c) Do you use any powerless tracks (without a resistor built in to provide the digital information)?

To be honest I still see do not see any pattern in your description. If there would be a software bug in general it would happen to any of your locs. The problem you are describing is just known with old decoder which "forget" their settings or with pure Mot-I- decoders which do not recognise any change of direction while they are not provided with any power - or if you change anything manually which might cause any misinterpretation of course.

Regards

Ruediger
 

[Lars N]

Hi Ruediger,

Just to clarify: when I say that I change direction in the loc-database I update it in the loc-database maintenance window of WDP, not by modifying the database directly with MS Access (That I did just once! And in fact that showed that it is the termination of WDP that does the mysterious change of direction.)

Over to your questions:
a) Yes, it always happens to the same locos, but I do no see any difference between them and the others. I have exactly the samt type of decoders in locos that are not changed.
b) Yes, the preferred direction is changed when I restart WDP.
c) I do not use any powerless tracks without or without a resistor built in. I am not familiar with that technique. What do you use that for?

I do not see any pattern in this either. Maybe we should close this case, but it still is annoying that some locos start backwards when you have turned on the PC to run your trains for a while. Small accidents happend now and the like running into bumpers and other surprises. It never happened in release 7.5 of WDP, I am sure of that.

Best regards,
Lars