mal function of routes and tours

[Henrik Larsen]

Can anybody tell me what is wrong?

When I check a route, where a track is blocked, an this is shown whith a red mark on the monitor, then the system correctly says that the route will not switch because the FB contact "xx" must be free.

However when I activate the "switch and drive" function for the same route, it swiches all the same, and the train starts. Somtimes the route only switches, the train starts, but stops again after a short while.


Same problem with tours.
Example: 2 og 3 routes are combined to a tour. 1st route free, Next route blocked. When train reaches the check-FB contact, the 2nd route switches allthough it is blocked. The train may slow downa little, and a red flag in the route line and a message "route is still blocked" may come up, but nevertheless the blocked route switches, and the train accelerates into the blocked track. (CRASH! )

Kind regards

Henrik Larsen

The routes consists of 1 start signal, several FB-contacts and atop signal. Startsignal turns to green and stopsignal to red, when route is switched.  

[Frank Mondorf]

Hello Mr Larsen,

the first behavior in routes is correct. If system tells that route is blocked, and You decide to start it anyway, the pc will start the route-process, and the pc will apply the configured actions behind the contacts in the route to the train, also if they arenot triggered by this train. So the route will stop directly after it startet, if the stop-contact is occupied.

Therefore You should use something like "switch only" in this situation an use a handy-throttle to move the train, or wait until the route is free.

In the second case, i suppose You did not "lock" "turnouts and signals" in one of the the route-editors tab, when recording the route.

Including both signals (start and stop) in the route is very correct. Locking the Startsignal (that is the Stopsignal for the following route) prevents the following Train from using the route, until the route ended and the its Startsignal gets free.

Just using occupied contacts, and not lock signals to prevent from crashes is only save, when contacts work absolutely correct. In my experience in a DCC-System there are often short times when contacts open, so that the following train can start.

Kind regards
Frank Mondorf
 

[Henrik Larsen]

Hello Frank,

Thank you for your reply.

Firstly I now understand the using of the "switch and drive"-function with routes as follows: When a FB i s blocked you will only get a warning, but the route will switch anyhow.

Secondly the tours: They are more tricky because the manual says that they will only switch, if all conditions are fulfilled. Moreover it says that the system will wait, and the train start again, when a blocked FB contact becomes free.

I checked that "all solonoid devices locked" were on. Then I made several testruns and found different behaviour depending on, which type of FB-contact was blocked.

Blocking the destination contact of next route in the tour made the system warn that switching condition was not fullfilled. Then this red marked message was flickering for some time (up to 10-15 seconds) then the blocked route switched and the train started. However the train (most times) stopped again (speed set to zero)and had to be started again with the speed control.

Blocking another FB- contact than the destination contact in the route was practically ignored by the system. The message, that the route was blocked, only came up for a very short while, but the route switched, and the train drove full speed into the blocked route.

I have a pair of naive questions/theories:

Can this mal-behaviour have something to do with the fact that I have changed the baudrate from 2400 to 19200?

Or might the standard 100 milliseconds for each reading of the FB-contacts have anything to do with it? I read somwhere in the manual that sometimes a slower readfrequence (250 milliseconds) could be better?

Kind regards

Henrik Larsen

   

[Frank Mondorf]

Hello Henrik,

thank You for translating the WDP-Terms, they may be wrong because my WDP-Version is in german.

In Antwort auf:
  Blocking the destination contact ... However the train (most times) stopped again (speed set to zero)and had to be started again with the speed control.
 

Yes, when the destination contact turns on, WDP starts the "stop the train and end the route and release all locks"
process. The yellow or orange symbols in the wdp-tracks should get dark.

So i suppose that the Your feedback-contact are really flickering. A Problem that is often known by two wire tracks (not so often when using märklin 3-wire tracks).

 

In Antwort auf:
 Blocking another FB- contact than the destination contact in the route was practically ignored by the system.  

Yes, the other contacs don't stop the train, but they are  checked before the route is startet by WDP, when using "Start and Drive as Tour" from the dialog or any automatic mode .

 

In Antwort auf:
  Can this mal-behaviour have something to do with the fact that I have changed the baudrate from 2400 to 19200?
Or might the standard 100 milliseconds for each reading of the FB-contacts have anything to do with it? I read somwhere in the manual that sometimes a slower readfrequence (250 milliseconds) could be better?

You can try, but I don_t believe so, because a slower readfrequence should only be useful, when reading from the com-port stresses the pc so much, that is has no time spend for other actions.

At first I would test the routes an tours in simulation-mode (when You use version 9.0 or higher). If they work fine, I'ld suppose a Problem in the feedback-system oder  -modules.

When the problems don't stop, You may tell me, which feedback and track-system You are using. If it doesn:t work in simulation, You can send me Your WDP-Projekt by EMail, so that I can have a look.

Kind regards
Frank  

[Henrik Larsen]

Hello Frank,

Thank you for your answer.

However im am now rather cofused  
 you wrote:
"Yes, when the destination contact turns on, WDP starts the "stop the train and end the route and release all locks"
process. The yellow or orange symbols in the wdp-tracks should get dark."

.. but as I understood the route facility due to the manual, the system should only switch the next route in a tour, if all the swichting conditions are true? I.e. destination FB and all other FB- contact on the second route are free?

The problem is that the destination FB (and secondly one of the other FB contacts)of the second route in the tour were blocked, before the train reached the brake-FB and destination FB of the first route in the tour.

Thus - to my understanding - the second route should not switch at all, untill it was free and safe, and the train should wait nicely in front of the red startsignal of the second route, and start again, when this route became free and was switched?

Kind regards

Henrik Larsen
   

[Frank Mondorf]

Helle Henrik,

You wrote:

" but as I understood the route facility due to the manual, the system should only switch the next route in a tour, if all the swichting conditions are true? I.e. destination FB and all other FB- contact on the second route are free? "

Yes, my statement said that the train stops in a route. When the train is in a tour, it works like You said:

Therefore the route must have entered an "Check next route" - contact (or tour, i don't how it is labeled in the english version), where system starts permanently checking conditions, to find out if the next route of the tour can be started.


You wrote : "Thus - to my understanding - the second route should not switch at all, untill it was free and safe, and the train should wait nicely in front of the red startsignal of the second route, and start again, when this route became free and was switched? "

Yes, if feedback-contacts work and the check-contact is set (before the stop-contact and - if possible - also before the break-contact), it should work like You wrote.

Therefore i suppose there is something not correct with your feedback-contacts or Your route-recording?

You can send me Your project by EMail (You can export it into a dirctory on Your PC with the Windigipet Backup program an zip it and mail it as attachement to frank.mondorf@t-online.de) . I'll look if ot works correct in the simulation mode.

When it works correct in simulation , we know that it is not a windigipet-problem, and we may test the feedback.

Kind regards
Frank