Problen with Märklin L88 and latest version of WinDigipet

[Jukka]

Hello everyone.

I have on my testing layout 120 contact points and I use Märklin L88 BUS-1 to connect all these point to CS2. I have then 8 S88 devices all around the layout connected to each other with RJ45 cables. Earth ( or MASS or whatever) is connected to first S88 device. Addresses to these contacts begin fro 1001 and at the moment I have configure L88 all buses to use 10 ms timing.
Everything goes fine when I use CS2, I have done a layout picture where all contact points can be seen and they works fine. No jamming etc.

I have quite many circuit-tracks and then of course own made contact tracks with outer rail isolated.
All kind of contacts are reliable when I use CS2 BUT........

When I try to use WinDigipet contact operate unreliably. I can see all contacts in my testing layout in WinDigipet but sometimes contacts don't work at all, sometimes the work fine for a while and the again something goes wrong they might remain occupied and when the train goes over the contact it might sometimes reset to unoccupied and so on ...
I have tried many timing alternatives but nothing helps.

It is really interesting to see on my PC-screen both programs in real time CS2 working reliable all the time, but WinDigipet don't work reliable at all.

Märklin PC-program is in the same computer where WinDigipet is installed. Computer is new and very powerful. Network is working fine between CS2 and PC.

Please have anybody any idea what can be done to make WinDigipet working better.

Regards

Jukka

[dconner]

Dear Jukka, You have a very interesting problem ! I suspect Stefen and Bernd will be able to offer you some concrete advice but in the mean time I might be able to advance your trouble shooting a little, even though I'm not the expert. Firstly, may I suggest you check the voltage from the rail output on your CS2 with reference earth, that is one conection of your measuring device to one pin on your CS2 output and the other measuring device conection to earth. On four CS2's in Berlin I have measured 130V AC. Between B and 0, 17V AC is measured, as expected. What I don't understand is your earth conection to the L88 ? I thought that the only power connection would be the 17 V AC from the CS2. Secondly, I have been in contact with Märklin Service about this 130 V AC measurement, without any sucess until now. If you are experiencing the same 130 V AC output, it may have a bearing on you problem ? Let's wait for Steffan and Bernd's input.
Best Regards from Berlin.

[Stefan Lersch]

Hello,

I don't habe a CS2 and so unfortunately I can't help here. But I wouldn't run the Märklin program and WDP at the same time. What happens when you run WDP only?

[Jukka]

Hello and thank you for your replies.

Voltage is ok. 18,xx changing a bit.  Fortunately no 130V anywhere. Earth is connected into L88 not in first single S88 device. I wrote wrong, sorry about that.
But still there is something wrong. CS2 shows all contacts ok, on and off, no problem.

But when I run WDP and it's contact monitor I can see that sometimes program don't recognize contact at all and sometimes connection remains hanging on. I use both contact types, momentary and contact track ( which shows much longer.) The problem can be seen also from the layout windows ( red when occupied and clear when free)
The problem occurs at both contact types.
Yes it is not recommended to run both programs at the same time at the same PC, I know, but it seems to work anyways.


I am positive that the problem will be solved it might take time. Please tell me anything that occurs into your mind and I will test and reply.

Happy Training everyone

Regards

Jukka

PS. I have written this problem alto to Märklin-Users-net forum and I will tell you if someone can help me there.
 

[Stefan Lersch]

Hello,

within WDP the feedback modules are counted in 8-units meaning 8 feedbacks per module. Most of the modern feedback modules have 16 feedbacks per module. In this case you have to double the number of feedback modules in the WDP settings. So if you have e.g. 5 feedback modules in reality you enter 10 in the WDP settings.

That would explain why you don't see some feedbacks at all.

[Jukka]

Thank you Stefan.
I know that I have to use two modules per S88 device. I have done so. WDP can see all the contacts that is for sure. Contact windows see also all the contacts that has been configures. I ment that when trin going over the contact sometimes WDP don't react at all.
It seems to me that somehow timing is not ok, but I have tried many many different timing alternatives and nothing has helped.

Somehow WDP cannot handle L88 right.

Iam wiating still another comments before I start so that I connect one by one those S88 devices and try to find where the problem is.

Regards

Jukka

[Jukka]

Hello Everyone
Now I have tested L88 and WDP 2015 ( WDP with L88 patch and latest software pach) alone nothing else connected to CS2, which is 60215 with latest software.
I tested contacts 1-16 and it behaves just like my testing layout  with about 120 contacts. All works in this test with CS2 good, no problem. All worked good with Märklin PC-sofrware, no problem.
But when I tested with WDP an L88 alone its 1-16 contacts. Behavior is very odd.
Sometimest WDP don't find connected contact at all at least every round 4 of 16 was that WDP did not react connected contact.
Then at least 4 of 16 contacts left occupied eve though I removed the wire from contact.

If Dr. Peterlin reads this post I really hope that he will tell me what to test more and how to test so that we find a solution to this issue. At the moment I am sure that the problem is in WDP-software, because with CS2 and it's PC-software all works fine.

 
Regards

Jukka

[Jukka]

Hi, One more thing to add.
I use Windows 10, any idea would the problem caused by Windows 10?

Jukka

[dconner]

Dear Jukka, Going on my experience with a CS2, Windows 10 and WDP 15 your problem is somewhere else. I have experienced feedback problems similar to yours. The answer appeared to be related to the cable I was using. It was a screened cable with 8 smaller wires about 0.15mm. Replacing the relevant wires cured the problem. As far as feedback indicators remaining active despite no physical conections, try restarting WDP (hardware reset ?).
Best regards from Berlin.

[Markus Herzog]

Dear Jukka,

Is the network connection via cable or wireless?

Regards
Markus

[Jukka]

Good Morning.
Thanks again for your answers.

Yesterday i did continue testing and made complete test with L88 alone. Contact by contact and with both CS2 alone and WDP alone. Result was the same. CS2 worked fine but WDP like before. So I don't think it is about the cables. I used in this test only one 10 cm cable connected in L88's earth.

Then I start to hesitate Network. My PC is connected via WIFI.

I will do today more testing; I will remove L88 all  and use old CS2's S88 bus under the device. Let see how contacts might work using that manner.
Then I continue to Network and change WIFI away and use only normal Network Cable and finally I will test Cross-Cable connection.

I will inform this forum what were the results.


Meanwhile Happy Training everyone

Regards

Jukka

If nothing helps then I have one way; to Change computer and Windows version to 7.

[Jukka]

Hello 

I have found the main reason for WDP and L88 odd behavior. Wireless Network was the main reason.

I cannot explain how L88 works and how much data it moves through Network to WDP-program but when I changed WiFi to ordinary CAT5 network switch there was no problem left.

I did test the whole layout and it's contacts with CS2 and all its possible S88 connections and I couldn't find any problem. Also L88 worked fine. ( with WiFi-network and CAT5 cable-network)

With WDP I tested S88 without L88 ( S88 BUS-cable connected into CS2 bottom contact) and all my contacts worked fine, no jamming, no missfires etc. Then I put S88 buss thru L88 BUS1 then all troubles begun. I tested L88's first 16 contacts and the didn't work either. This was when I used WiFi-network.

Change to CAT5-cable network, WDP worked in all situations and with all kind of S88-Buss connections fine, no problem at all.

I have seen in many forums that people don't think that switching-tracks are not reliable enough when we put contact points on our layouts.
After many kind of testing during last few days I can say that they are reliable enough, if you don't use any kind of lubrication for switching-tracks moving parts. I have  tens of Märklin 24994, 24194 and 24294 tracks on my testing layout and all of  them are working reliable all the time. Instead of  lubricating them you should a bit ease rocking leveler by loosening two clamps under the track.( Just a bit if the leveler don't move to the central position ), then it will work easily.

If you will you can use dry Teflon spray, but then you have to break apart the whole mechanism and after spraying let it dry for a while prior to assembly.


Well   I did learn again a lot by testing and struggling with contacts, I hope that someone can get some help from this thread.

Happy Training everyone 

Regards

Jukka

[Guy Goerres]

Hi Jukka.

a general advice, never use Wifi when you need a reliable data transfer. The TCP stack may not resend data properly when it does lost in the air..

best regards, Guy