Help for Fleischmann turntable problem

[SPIKE1320]

Hello,
I'm new to Windigipet and have a problem with the turntable set up. I have a Fleischmann 6152 TT controlled by a LDT TT-DEC.

I have drawn the turntable to the instructions in Win-digipet and using the check function in the editor all is OK, "except for the no connection East and West from the TT bridge", however I have checked the ignore boxes for these two warnings. I have all the solenoid device addresses and feedback contacts correct, and also the train number displays.

Basically everything works fine, but I cannot make any locomotive drive onto or off the bridge. I need help to understand waht I have missed or if anybody else has had this problem.

How to fix it?
Thanks,
IAN

[Bernd Senger]

Hi Ian,
did you create the routes from and to the bridge? please make also sure to configure the position feedback or to ride the routes with profiles. This will prevvent you that a loco will start driving before the bridge is in the correct positon.

[SPIKE1320]

Hello Bernd,
Thanks for the reply. Yes, this was the problem, I misunderstood how to create the routes but now I have it working.
As you suggest with some profiles it will be great!

I would like ask also another question: In the intelligent turntable what is the meaning of "Train Number Panels on Turntable". There is 3 entry fields, how should I enter it?

I appreciate your time so thanks again,
Regards from Australia,
IAN

[Bernd Senger]

Good morning Ian,
"train number panels" means the same as "train number fields" or in german "Zugnummernfelder". Today there is only need to place one field on the bridge of the turntable. The opportunity for three fields coming up from earlier versions of Win-Digipet. Formerly many people cutting the track on the bridge into two or three parts to make sure to place the locos  on the bridge in the right direction. Today, with the intelligence of WDP there's no more need to cut the tracks on the bridge but for the users with the modified turntables the choices for three fields is still in the dialogue.
You'll put only one feedback contact number into one of the fields, doesn't matter which one you choose.

Have fun
Regards from Berlin, Germany

Bernd

[SPIKE1320]

Hello Bernd.
Thanks, you've been a great help, it seems some experience is a big advantage! So I can't miss this opportunity to ask another question as your answers are fantastic to understand.

With regards the position feedback you spoke of in your first answer:
The turntable is controlled by a LDT TT-DEC. and wired as the circuit I have attached, which should provide position feedback.
On my system this is feedback number 10 (the second module on the S88 feedback bus - terminal 2)
So in Win-digipet when I record the solenoid device registration - position monitoring section - via feedback contact for - 1 decoder address = (do I just use the number 10 in this field?).

It doesn't seem correct to me, so can you help me understand what address this should be?

Hopefully you're not tired of my questions so I will thank you in advance for your help.

Thanks again,
IAN

 

[Bernd Senger]

Hello Ian,
you're welcome with your questions. Once a time everyone was a beginner and glad about some help. And of course this is the reason for this forum. Normally you'll get answers here within 2-3 days, but remember not everyone is able to write in english and also most of the writing people here are still working in their usual jobs.

To your question:
The TT-DEC hav a connector for a feedback decoder. It is shown in the graphic you've sent on the right side of the red LED. This connector indicates a "position feedback". Not a full one. You can't say the bridge is on position e.g. 15. It is only an indicator for "the bridge doesn't turn anymore it arrived to the (selected) position. In most cases (nearly 100%) the bridge find the correct position. You'll have no chance to find out automatically with win-digipet if the bridge stopped to a wrong position.

What you can do is what you suggest. Put the feedback number 10 in the solenoid device dialog of each connector where you have a track. Now when you start a route the tt starts to turn but the loco doesn't start immediately. It won't start to drive until the feedback contact 10 (in your case) became "high". That's a very easy way for a "semi-position recognition.

I would also suggest to create profiles for the routes from/to the bridge. Here you can configure some more delays (the turntable is not a formula one device), decrease the loco-speed and some interactive checkboxes to confirm  if the bridge turns to the choosen position.

Finally let me say, the (automatic) operation of a turntable needs a lot of tests, experience and also produces a lot of frustration. But at the end it is worth of it.

If you like we can also get in contact via skype, so feel free to send me your sype-name within a private message.

Cheers from germany
Bernd
+++

[SPIKE1320]

Hello Bernd,
I have the wiring no problem, this part is easy for me. And as you say I have written profiles but sometimes my loco's still drive off before the position is reached, or in the wrong direction, so I need to spend some more time on this. Also, the direction the turntable moves seems random, so here is some more time to be spent. As you also say, there is quite a bit of frustration, but I will just keep experimenting until it is correct.

I will see how it goes with the position feedback written to the solenoid device registration. I have the loco speeds low so this is already done. When you suggest interactive check boxes, do you mean counters / switches, buttons, or? (This would solve the early driving for sure, as in the profile it could be used and nothing will drive until it is activated)

I'm happy to receive the replies. It's a shame, but my German is very poor, and if I try to write it there would be even more confusion, and maybe I would even be banned from the forum . Also like most people there is also work for me, it's a shame that work interrupts the model railway, there must be a better way!

So for now, let me spend some time to have the best working of the turntable system possible, then I can list the problems I have, and as you kindly offer, I may need to get in touch and discuss it with you.

So again, thanks for your help,
Cheers,
IAN

[Bernd Senger]

Hello Ian,
no one wiil be banned out of his forum, because he didn't speak a foreign language. It doesn't happens also if there are a lot of questions. This is the place to ask them! Coming up within the next couple of months is the english translation of the manual. There is no release date at the moment, but work is still in progress.

With the interactive checkboxes i mean a task list which  you create with the profiles. I put an example picture at the end of this message. In the second row of this profile I wrote a text message "check bridge position". If you are running the specified route for this profile, this line will show you a small window with one or maybe more tasks in a list. The profile won't running further on until you clear the task (here "check bridge position"). So you have the chance to take a look to your layout and check if the bridge received the right position. After clearing the task the loco will start driving (with 10km/h) and will stop at the destination contact.

Have a nice weekend
Regards from Berlin

[SPIKE1320]

Hello Bernd,
That was just a joke about being banned, some Aussie humour!  And thanks for the information and picture.

OK, so I have the TT programmed with the feedback contact (#10) registered in the Solenoid Devices. I've written some simple profiles and this works fine = The loco will will not drive until the bridge is in position.

Some issues I would like to solve:
If the bridge is already in the correct position loco's will not drive on or off using the route manager. This is using the standard profile, not the one with the position contact written in. (I have to drive them manually which I'd rather not do, or I have to step the bridge once clockwise and then back anticlockwise to make the loco drive) Do you have any hints why this is the case?

The TT always turns in the direction last set with the direction key. Is this always the case? I have to specify the direction before initiating the route, or is there some way to make it "think automatic"? (I've tried writing the direction in the profile but it just ignores it)

Maybe this question relates to the above? Regards the intelligent turntable, I tried some backwards, and forwards settings. It made no difference , the TT just went to the position, and the loco just drove off in the direction it was on the bridge. Maybe I don't understand what this means? I understood it to mean I could have some exits for steam loco's for instance, and they would always reverse into the shed?

I'm watching for the 2018 manual, as you say, but it's still good to have some information from the experienced operator, so thanks again!

I hope your summer / autumn lasts a bit longer and it's not to cold in Germany!
Cheers,
IAN



 

[Bernd Senger]

Hello Ian,
i'm sorry about the delay but i was very busy in the last few days. We had a long and partly very hot summer with temperatures up to 40°C and without rain here in germany. This is very unusual and causes some problems as you could imagine.

Some issues I would like to solve:
If the bridge is already in the correct position loco's will not drive on or off using the route manager. This is using the standard profile, not the one with the position contact written in. (I have to drive them manually which I'd rather not do, or I have to step the bridge once clockwise and then back anticlockwise to make the loco drive) Do you have any hints why this is the case?

the routes should work even the bridge is in the right position. To drive a route depends only on the conditions oft the contacts (Startcontact - occupied and the rest free) Maybe you have the postion contact in the conditions, you don't have to do this.

The TT always turns in the direction last set with the direction key. Is this always the case? I have to specify the direction before initiating the route, or is there some way to make it "think automatic"? (I've tried writing the direction in the profile but it just ignores it)

The turndirection is the decision of the intellgent TT Setup. It will always choose the shortest way to the destionation dependig on the direction oft he locomotive. it is not necessary to write some direction commands in the profiles.

If you like place a copy of your project here (without loco pictures and symbols) and we can take a look on it.

Cheers
Bernd

[SPIKE1320]

Hello Bernd,
No problems about the time, it gives me more time to learn more about the program.

Well, now there is a different situation. My computer crashed and I lost all the data. But actually a good thing, as I've rewritten everything and now the loco's drive from any position so I have solved some things.

But here is my biggest trouble:
1. Trying to make all the loco's stop in the same position. To make less confusion lets just focus on the bridge contact. I've made it an Intelligent Train Number Display with one driving direction.

2. The diesels and small tank locomotives stop where I tell them, standard or written profiles / signal, stopping point, mid of platform, etc (All types of decoders Zimo, ESU, Doelher Haass)

3. But the Tender locomotives and Electric locomotives mostly just stop halfway on the siding and bridge nowhere close to the stopping point. I have the speed at 10kmph and these loco's are mostly Fleischmann with factory supplied Zimo decoders, and also some which I have fitted myself with Zimo decoders for their excellent slow driving speeds.

3.B. I also tried a normal Train Number display and wrote a profile for the loco to stop when the siding contact was free which almost works, but it's a poor solution as tender loco's make different contact depending on their direction.

So I will send you the data, but I have to say:
A. Non stop for five + days I've tried so many solutions, it's likely to be a mess.
B. You will see I have two profiles for one siding, this was just to try different speeds. And one siding is not connected as I ran out of feedback contacts so just ignore this part
C. This is just a small test layout, my real layout has three turntables and over 60 locomotives from different manufacturers so you can see I would be extremely grateful to understand why I am having so much trouble.
D. As far as the Intelligent Turntable goes, I did an experiment with different direction on the sidings but the loco's just drove off any way? So first if we can solve the stopping position, I can worry about the Intelligent TT next.

Thanks, I will figure out some way to repay your help!
Best regards,
IAN

[Bernd Senger]

Good morning Ian,

thank you for the project. I made some changes in the profile editor. There are two examples for the profiles from and to the bridge.

Also i've made some changes in the TT dialogue. The TT number can be any value betwenn 0 and 255 but it is very important that every part of a tt has the same number (connectors/solenoid devices etc.). You can refer it in your attached project. I choose the "1".

The LDT decoder is a Märklin compatible decoder, i changed it, too. You dont need the switches for direction and step. This will handled by windigipet. Only the 180° turn symbol is important.

To your described problem. Did you measured and calibrate your locos? This is mandatory for the correct stopping of the vehicles.  You've also delete the delay for deceleration in the decoders (CV4).

Cheers from Berlin
Bernd

[SPIKE1320]

Hello Bernd,
Thanks for your time to look at my project.

This is how I approached the problems.
1. I made a new project and loaded your data.
2. I looked at your changes and then made them exactly the same in my original project.

So now the intelligent turntable works, hurray!!!!
But there is this problem. I cannot drive it manually eg: I want the loco to drive FWD's out of the exit track (16) (Which has the command = whatever) after driving off siding 14 FWD's, so I press the rotate anticlockwise key (212-Green), then I press the exit track connector (214-Green), but no, the TT just takes the shortest route and the loco is facing backwards. 

So I switch to the project with your data and try the exact same sequence, and ""YES"" it works perfectly.

I have checked, rechecked, double and triple checked that the settings are exactly the same. I'm completely lost!


And to your questions regards the locomotives:
Yes, I've measured and calibrated the ones I'm using in my trail layout. I recalibrated the tender loco that is giving me the most trouble and also set the deceleration (CV4) to 0 as you suggested. But honestly, it made it worse. So I set the speed profile manually and made the minimum speed FWD's & Backwards 5kmph (Speed step 1) and this helped, but still not stopping where it should.

If I had to do this for 62 locomotives? it's crazy. I'm completely frustrated! With the size of my layout I will have to think on how to control it.

Thanks for your help.

Best regards from Australia.
IAN

[Ralf Krapp]

Hello Ian,
it is not good to set CV 4 to value 0, it is much more better to choose value 1 or 2. I set this CV in all locos on value 1 and it works very good. I wish you a good success.

[SPIKE1320]

Hello Ralf,
Thanks very much for the input, I will try this a see how it works.
Regards.
IAN