Loco control panel with different colour

[SPIKE1320]

Hello,
Two of my locomotive control panels have the colour red in the speed indicator - "see the attached image to understand the area I'm asking about" -

All my other locomotives are the colour black in this area, as in the attached image. The two that are red have different driving behaviour when I drive them manually = they accelerate and decelerate faster, otherwise all behaviour is the same. (I have identical locomotives which I compared them against)

I've calibrated the loco's several times, checked all the settings, and read through the manual, but can find no answer.

What is the meaning of these colours, and can it be changed?

Thanks,
IAN

[Stefan Lersch]

Hi Ian,

that's pretty simple. You have set the maximum speed for this loco to 120 km/h (more or less). That's where the white area ends. The red area means that this speed range cannot be reached. If you have WDP running and use your hand control and accelerate to a speed in the red area WDP will automatically reduce the speed to the maximum entered in WDP.

[michael1957]

Hallo Stefan,
nachdem ich mit Ian in der Sache schon seit 2 Tagen in Kontakt bin (er hatte mir das immer nur per PN zu erklären versucht, ohne Screenshot) glaube ich zu wissen, dass nicht der Tacho gemeint ist mit seiner Frage (dazu hatte ich ihm bereits mehrere Erklärungen und Screenshots geschickt - siehe meinen Beitrag in seinem vorherigen Thread "braking distance"). Er aber hat mit diesem Beitrag hier (wenn ich das richtig verstehe) die Anzeige oben gemeint; siehe dazu den Pfeil den er eingezeichnet hat. Und dazu hab ich leider auch nicht die Antwort parat... Vielleicht kannst du dir das in diesem Sinne nochmals ansehen und ihm noch einen kurzen Kommentar dazu schreiben... Danke dir im Voraus, beste Grüße aus Österreich, Michael

[Stefan Lersch]

Hi Ian,

Michael writes that you don't mean the speedometer but the black box where you have the arrow.

Can I have your backup of your project? Please make a backup with the option "minimum, for the forum". Please tell me which locos have a red box.


It may take a while till I can have a look because I'm away the next days.

[SPIKE1320]

Hello Stefan and Michael,
Thanks for the offer to help! As always, there is no rush, I'm happy to have some assistance! Thanks Michael for the translation!

My project is attached and also here is a better description.
The loco class 212 - digital address #12 has the area shown coloured red.
I have an identical loco class 212 - digital address #13 - it's area is black as normal for all other loco's
Both loco's have been calibrated several times, and all riding properties are set exactly the same.
When driven by routes, start - destination they behave the same (acceleration, deceleration).
Then I had the idea to drive each loco manually, to test them against each other for double traction.
I click on the speed 60kmph on the circular speedometer in the loco control panel.
Loco #12 - the speedometer moves straight to 60km's and the loco accelerates and decelerates very fast.
Loco #13 - the speedometer moves slowly to 60km's and the loco accelerates and decelerates gradually = as is correct.

Also I have checked everything in the digital system (Intellibox II) and the loco CV's. I could just delete the loco #12 and register it again new, but I have not learned what I have done incorrect.

Thanks very much for the time you have to assist with this issue!
Regards,
IAN

[michael1957]

Dear IAN,
thank you for the backup and for the additonal explanations. I downloaded the backup and will try to analyze it in the evening (in Austria now it is 10.48 a.m.). As soon as I have any findings or knowledge I will contact you. Beste regards from Autria, Michael

[michael1957]

Hello Ian,

I have tried to find the reason for the different colour yesterday evening bute I´m sorry to say I could not find any explaination for the red field in your lok-control. I think we will have to wait until Stefan is back. I am very interested to read the result of Stefan´s analyzis. Best regards, Michael

[Sven Spiegelhauer]

Hallo Ian,

entschuldige bitte, aber ich mach es mal aud deutsch.
In dem Lokcontrol ist die Verzögerung für die manuelle Steuerung abgeschaltet.

[michael1957]

Hallo Sven,
vielen herzlichen Dank für die Auflösung dieses Rätsels! Ich habe mich gestern eine gefühlte Ewigkeit damit beschäftigt hinter die Ursache zu kommen. Da habe ich jetzt auch wieder etwas dazu gelernt. Ich werde mir erlauben deinen Hinweis für Ian kurz und sinngemäß zu übersetzen. DANKE nochmals für deine Erklärung und beste Grüße aus Österreich, Michael

[michael1957]

Hallo Ian,
as I feel a little bit responsible for solving your problem I will try to translate the hint from Sven in the message before: "In the Loco-control the delay for the manual control is switched off" - you can "repair" this by the setting shown in sven´s screenshot. I hope this is a help for you and I wish you much pleasure with your modeltrains! Best regards from Autria, Michael

[SPIKE1320]

Hello Sven, Michael, and Stephan,
Thanks very much, tomorrow I will change this setting and I'm sure it will be a success.

I'm sorry I can not speak German well enough to use it on this forum so I really appreciate everyone's help and translations. Actually it's not that much of a problem with Google Translate and below I will try the German version, but please forgive me if it makes no sense.

While I'm speaking with three experienced users I have another question. After calibrating my class 212 loco's (I have 3) they actually stop short. Is this because I have the minimum speed set too slow? I have it just at 3kmph.

Thanks and regards,
From Sunny Australia.
IAN

And now for the German attempt 
Hallo Sven, Michael und Stephan,
Vielen Dank, morgen werde ich diese Einstellung ändern und ich bin mir sicher, dass es ein Erfolg wird.

Es tut mir leid, dass ich nicht gut genug Deutsch sprechen kann, um es in diesem Forum zu benutzen, deshalb schätze ich wirklich die Hilfe und die Übersetzungen von allen. Eigentlich ist es mit Google Translate kein so großes Problem und unten werde ich die deutsche Version ausprobieren, aber bitte vergib mir, wenn es keinen Sinn ergibt.

Während ich mit drei erfahrenen Benutzern spreche, habe ich eine andere Frage. Nach dem Kalibrieren meiner Loks der Klasse 212 (ich habe 3) halten sie tatsächlich kurz an. Liegt das daran, dass ich die Mindestgeschwindigkeit zu langsam eingestellt habe? Ich habe es nur bei 3 km / h.

Danke und Grüße,
Von Sunny Australia.
IAN

[michael1957]

Hello Ian,

based on your message from this morning, I reviewed your project again. In doing so, I noticed several questions in several places, which could be the cause of your problems:

1. Checking your data with the "!" shows some important errors in the track and in the roads. You should definitely edit these.
2. The decoders of your locomotives are all set to only 28 speed steps. Is that right or could the decoders also be set to more than 28 speed steps? Thus, the locomotives could also be controlled finer.
3. In your track picture I noticed that the ITNF's only consist of one feedback contact. Especially for slowing down from higher speeds, this is not favorable in my experience. WDP can better control the braking process when several contacts are available to control the braking process and re-adjust if necessary.
4. Another important point is the settings in the CVs of the decoders for acceleration and deceleration. I would imagine that these values ​​need to be increased a bit so that the locomotives decelerate and accelerate a bit more smoothly. Unfortunately, I can not read the CV settings of your decoder in the backup because they can not be seen in WDP. Unfortunately, you have not entered the decoder types in the locomotive data so I can not read about them on the internet.

However, I have seen that you have also set a brake correction of 18 on one of the BR 212 locomotives. Thus, this locomotive must have a much shorter braking distance than the others.

Much success and regards from Austria! Michael

[SPIKE1320]

Hello Michael,
Thanks again for the information,
This project is a test layout I set up to learn Win-Digipet before I make changes to my real layout. And I'm learning many things very fast form the help you have given. (So some of the data may look incorrect, as I try different things and make changes.)
 
1. Already I have made changes to the feedback contacts from the data you received, this I learned from from your previous advice, so thank you once again.

2. My decoders where all set at 28 steps before I purchased W-D. Do mean change to 128 steps in W-D, and also the Actual Decoder? They have to match, correct?

3. Yes, adding contacts to the stopping distance has helped. And in the case I add extra contacts in the ITND this is good for fast trains, but the slow trains stop very short when I do this? Also, it is not possible to have more contacts in the turntable area which is the biggest problem.

4. So this is my biggest confusion. First I had high values in the deceleration CV#4 as set before I use W-D. Then I was informed I must set all decoders at CV#4 to value 1 or 2. But this makes the loco's jerk when they adjust speed. So here is why you see one class 212 with braking correction and one with out as I experiment to understand the difference (One with high deceleration value and one with low value). I've since recalibrated all three 212's and set all decoder settings = CV#4 = 3. Now they all pretty much behave the same, but stopping short. So I guess the correct approach is to adjust CV#4 until the stopping is satisfactory?

All of these locomotives have ESU Lokpilot v4.0 decoders retrofitted. Almost all the rest of my loco's (approximately 60) have ZIMO decoders which I love for their slow driving qualities. I'm hoping for some great results when I finally calibrate these, But first I wish to fully understand what I'm doing.

So Michael, you've been a great help to me, I'd like to thank you for the time you've spent to advise me. I have another question, but first I will ask your permission. I'm wondering if you're already worn out from all the questions I ask?

Thanks, and best regards,
IAN

[michael1957]

Hello Ian,
Of course you can also ask me new questions if you have any! Please be patient if the forum or I can not answer a question immediately. Since I am traveling a lot for work reasons, sometimes it can take a few days until I can test something on my model train.

On your topics of today:
I think all your decoders should be able to work with 128 steps. You will be able to control your locos better and finer. I would recommend you to test it first with 2 or 3 locos before you then maybe have a problem and that at all locomotives at the same time. Specifically, the acceleration and deceleration are much better regulated and controlled.

No, slow train should not stop shorter when you make longer braking aereas. W-D should regulate the deceleration so, that the braking distance will be similiar to the "real life" of trains. I use the same contact lines for 180 km/h than for 60 km/h. Maybee you nessessarily need to define the one ore the other profile for single locos but if you have done this once ist will be no problem for you. According to installing and adjusting the turnable please ask the collegues in the forum. As I only have a manuel turnable I don´t have enough experience with it.

Yes, I think it will be nessessary to adjust CV#4 to higher values than 2 oder 3. But I avoid setting higher values ​​than 7-8, all my locos descend and stop in a correct way. And last but not least you alway have the possibility of braking correction which you can increase until the value of 30.

And - once more: of course you have my permission for further questions! Do not hesitate to contact me ist nessessary! Best regards from Austria, Michael

[Stefan Lersch]

Hello Ian,

the new 2018 version offers a possibility to make a more realistic stop for slow trains without any effects to fast(er) trains. This is an option for advanced users and I recommend that you first ignore the "problem" with the slow trains crawling. You can change that any time easily but you should have more experience with WDP first. Just ask me again.